Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

I have some teflon cookware. I like the non-stick function, but I know that some of that stuff scrapes off and you end up eating it.

Are there any good alternatives to teflon? What kind of cookware is most practical and long lasting? Cast iron.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Get rid of it! Switch to stainless steel, or, my favorite, cast iron. Both Teflon and aluminum cookware should be avoided.

A well-seasoned cast iron pan is a thing of beauty.

http://southernfood.about.com/od/rec...a/aa092100.htm

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

I love my stainless steel but must admit I have a really hard time with eggs or starchy foods like potatoes. Would never go back to teflon.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

I've used so much teflon I can't remember what the question was ???:cry1:

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

I've found that the selection of non-Teflon cookware is limited. I have trouble finding what I want. It seems like 90% of the stuff out there is coated.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Well seasoned cast iron is IT!
Pay some visits over time to your local Goodwill, SA, whatever. Buy it up when you can. Antique stores seem to have plenty too. Any old lid will do, again the thrift stores can provide those. I did and disposed of teflon before the scare. Got tired of buying new skillets because the coating would wear thin.
BTW. It looks like the new Lodge stuff is not machined on the cooking surface, the old stuff(regardless of brand) is. Makes a difference to me.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

I won't use that crap, I do a lot of cooking in a wok, it's carbon steel better then any nonstick teflon pan anyhow, cast iron also rocks.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

I have a cast iron skillet, VERY well seasoned (it's never seen soap in it's life, just salt and a stainless scouring pad), and it's actually more non-stick than any of my teflon pans!

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

hard anodized aluminum is a good, fairly inexpensive replacement for teflon.

I don't trust teflon at all, and refuse to cook with it. We have been using the hard anodized for almost a year now, no fuss.

Your food doesnt come into contact with the aluminum btw.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Many things are linked to Cancer, but things you cook on that are linked to Cancer are a great concern.

http://www.naturalnews.com/010431.html

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

TEFLON,
No way.

Agreed with the board here. Cast is IT. The issue that people have with cast, is that after cooking, they scrub and scrub with wire scourers. Then the cast rusts.

After cooking, wash and wipe only with a soft sponge. After a while the cast will become sealed. My fry pan and skillets are now well sealed, that soon after use, a little water and a wipe. Cast is also much thicker, and thus, the heat is controlled more.

dlm1968

Stainless can cause the eggs to stick a little. If doing a fried egg, turn the temp to a 3rd or less. Cook an egg on as slow as is poss. No crisp, and the egg 'should' slide off the pan.

Potatoes? I tend to keep the left over fat, put it in the fridge and reuse, the deeper the fat if rolling Potatoes for prep roasting the better. I half boil firsthand.

Hope this helps.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

I remember reading earlier this year that some 90% of the population has Teflon in their bloodstream from the wide use of these products. Can't find the link - anyone else read this or have a link?

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Never liked the stuff.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Teflon??
Isn't that the stuff they used to make Presidents out of?

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

went to all cast iron and will never go back to teflon
still use stainless for the pots.

also try using a teflon pan on an open fire, burn it once and it is RS.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

http://www.organicconsumers.org/arti...icle_14603.cfm :s10:

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

It is a non-disputed fact that heating Teflon releases certain gases into the air which are toxic. Toxic enough to kill birds. This is why if you ever owned a bird you were likely warned (or at least damn well should've been) that you should avoid cooking with teflon cookware as it will poison and kill your bird.

http://www.peteducation.com/article....+1829&aid=2874

Even Teflon's web site warns about it:

http://www.teflon.com/NASApp/Teflon/...ord_birds.html


Now does anyone remember the stories of miners in the old days before they had electronic meters to warn them about fatal gas pockets? Well if you don't- read here:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-it...-coal-mine.htm

but the basic gist of it is, as quoted from that article: "As long as the canary in a coal mine kept singing, the miners knew their air supply was safe. A dead canary in a coal mine signalled an immediate evacuation."

So, if common sense serves me well, if there is some gas being emitted by this space age material which is toxic enough to kill my pet bird, I probably should seek immediate evacuation and avoid that substance whenever possible.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Thanks for bringing this up. I needed new skillets and was looking at al-clad which is super expensive. I went for some Lodge Cast Iron. Picked up from amazon 12" with Lid ,10 1/4" with lid, 6" inch (for grilled cheese), and a 14 Ounce melting pot for less then $85.

Still need to pick up a stainless sauce pan or two. Anyone have suggestions on stainless sauce pans that won't rip a hole in my pocket?

The teflon non-stick stuff is going in the garbage.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Spot on !!!

Throw thy teflon away. Garbage belongs in the garbage can.

If anything sticks to the stainless steel, I just use some baking soda
on it & it comes right off. Never had a problem with cleaning it.
I cook every day and could not imagine living without my stainless steel !!
Also, I have some cast iron, but don't use it everyday like the stainless.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

You know STainless steel has a bit (usually around 5%) of Nickel in it, which is said to bother or sensitize some people.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Polytetrafluoroethylene

by Saul Mine
Arizona State University
1998

Introduction

Polytetrafluoroethylene (abbreviated PTFE, also known by the trademarks Teflon, Silverstone, T-Fal, Supra, Resistal, and others) was discovered accidentally in 1938 by Roy J. Plunkett of DuPont�s Jackson Laboratory in New Jersey. Since then, this seemingly innocuous material has quietly flooded the country. If the average person ever thinks about Teflon at all, it is to idly wonder, �How do they get it to stick to a fry pan?� But even a partial list of Teflon�s uses reveals that a vast amount of this material has been brought into the world. Common uses include:

Non-stick fry pans, cake pans, pizza pans, breadmaker pans
Deep fryers, waffle irons, griddles
Portable heaters
Irons with non-stick sole plates
Self cleaning ovens
Heat lamps
Curling irons
Hair dryers
Stovetop burners
Coffee makers
Medical implants
Prosthetic devices
High performance industrial filters
Scientific instruments
Electrical insulation

PTFE is widely used for its stability at high temperatures. Most polymers are unstable above the boiling point of water, but PTFE is stable at least to 260 C, and in some applications up to 400 C. It is used in electronic equipment for its combination of chemical resistance, heat resistance, and dielectric stability.

In all of this, there have been very few voices urging caution. A person who reads a lot might run across an occasional warning that Teflon releases poisonous gases when overheated. A few people might wonder about eating the flakes of Teflon that fall off their non-stick fry pans, but nobody ever seems to worry much about it.

The purpose of this paper is to investigate those questions and others, including:

Are there any hazards in the manufacture, use, or disposal of PTFE?
Is PTFE recyclable, and what are the proper disposal methods?
What are the breakdown mechanisms and resulting products of PTFE?
Are Teflon oil additives actually any good?
Is it true that PTFE kills parakeets?

Production

The manufacture of PTFE may begin in two ways. First, calcium fluoride is reacted with sulfuric acid to make hydrofluoric acid, and methane is chlorinated to trichloromethane. Alternately, the process can be done with hydrofluoric acid and trichloromethane already procured. Then they are reacted with a catalyst of antimony trifluoride to produce chlorodifluoromethane, which forms tetrafluoroethylene (TFE) with no catalyst at 590 to 900 C. The yield is typically about 95%, which is very important in the economics of the process. TFE tends to self polymerize (that is how PTFE was discovered), but careful control is required to get it to polymerize in the desired manner. Low molecular weight PTFE is not strong enough to be a useful material. Overall, the processes are complicated and very different from the methods used for other plastics, so PTFE is significantly more expensive.

PTFE is manufactured as a raw material in the forms of resin, powder, pellets, or aqueous dispersion, and then shipped to other manufacturers who actually make it into products. The forms are chemically identical but require completely different handling methods. Each form is processed in a different manner according to very specific instructions provided by the manufacturer. Getting the world�s non-stickiest stuff to stick to a fry pan is a very good trick, and DuPont won�t say how they do it, except that a �primer� is used. The dangers in these processes come not from the PTFE, but from the other materials involved. Powder methods usually involve combustible lubricants and extrusion at high temperatures and pressures, so fire is a danger, along with any other hazards from the lubricants. Water dispersions usually require baking to dryness, with possible release of TFE gas and the various surfactants used to stabilize the dispersion. In all cases the first line of defense is ventilation, but careful design is needed to be sure the ventilation actually removes noxious products. Merely blowing a lot of air around is not sufficient.

The only danger in producing raw PTFE, other than a fire in the factory or a slippery spill, is the TFE gas, which is also the primary product released during decomposition. The combination of TFE and tobacco presents a unique and insidious hazard. It is recommended to completely ban tobacco products from the work place. This is discussed further in the section on toxicity.

Fate

The fate of PTFE is rather simple: it is very likely going to be PTFE forever. It is the least reactive material known. It is not attacked by any known acid or base or any other kind of reagent, and does not dissolve in any known solvent, although if it has voids, the voids can absorb liquids or gases. There are just two things that will break down PTFE: temperatures in excess of 260 C, and ultraviolet light. Above 400 C, finely powdered PTFE can react violently with finely powdered metals, especially aluminum and magnesium. These conditions can be easily produced by grinding or sandblasting PTFE coated products, so some caution is warranted in machine shops and reclamation operations. Another hazard is pumping aluminum flake slurries through pumps or fittings lined with PTFE. This can cause unexpected and maybe violent failures in the equipment.

PTFE does not burn, but if heated, it breaks down into sub-micron particles and several toxic gases. These products are discussed in the section on toxicity. PTFE and PTFE coated products should never be mixed with domestic or industrial waste that may be incinerated. Preferred disposal methods are recycling and landfill. Incineration is permissible only in a plant equipped to remove hydrogen fluoride and other acidic combustion gases. Liquid dispersed resins are disposed by filtering out the solids and sending them to a landfill. The water always contains TFE gas (which is water soluble), but can be adequately processed by any waste water treatment facility that is prepared and permitted to do so.

Of special interest is the use of Teflon as an additive to motor oil. This seems like a good idea, but it doesn�t work as one might expect. DuPont has never endorsed the use of PTFE for this purpose, but apparently cannot stop dealers from using the Teflon trademark as long as the product actually contains DuPont Teflon. Recall that one method used in manufacture is extrusion of PTFE dispersed in a lubricant under certain pressures and temperatures. PTFE won�t stick to anything, but it will polymerize with itself and become lodged on rough surfaces or in tight passages. This is exactly what it does in a gasoline engine. Granules of PTFE form and grow, adhering by mechanically gripping roughened surfaces inside the engine, and sometimes plugging oil passageways and clogging rings. If this happens, PTFE can actually prevent normal lubrication. This is an application that should be avoided. If the used oil is improperly discarded there is little chance of the PTFE in it being broken down or reformed. If the oil is sent to a rerefiner as it should be, the PTFE must be filtered out and sent to a recycler.

Measurement

Because of the extreme nonreactive nature of PTFE, the only practical way to measure it is to physically separate it and weigh it When that is not possible and a precise measurement is needed, professional technicians must be hired at rates from $800 to $2000 per day, plus $25 to $150 per sample analyzed. In toxicity testing, only PTFE is used, so measurements are obtained by filtering the products out and weighing the filters. Several grades of filters are used together, since the effects depend more on the size of fume particles than on inherent toxicity. In other settings, a common approach is to analyze everything else in the system and assume that the mass not accounted for is PTFE.

Of greater concern is the presence of the monomer TFE. Small amounts of this gas are released at temperatures below the breakdown of the polymer, and increasing as the temperature rises toward 400 C. (In the case of non-stick fry pans, the amount of gas released by the PTFE at usual frying temperatures is comparable to the amount of gas released by the plastic handle.) Other gases are released at higher temperatures, and all these gases are easily measured with conventional instruments. In determining safety requirements for handling resins, such as in a factory, a measurement is not usually considered necessary. Instead, equipment is selected to cope with one milligram of TFE per kilogram of PTFE processed, since the solid product reliably contains very nearly that amount of the gas. It is suspected that this small amount of gas is responsible for the softening of solid PTFE at temperatures below 260 C. There is some evidence to support this, but it is not certain.

Toxicity

PTFE is not toxic at all, but when heated above 400 C it releases fumes that cause fever. This is called �polymer fume fever,� or PFF. In humans the symptoms are nearly identical to the symptoms of �welding fume fever,� and very similar to the effects from inhaling soot or other finely divided powders. The symptoms depend mainly on the particle size, which is about 0.05 micron. It is presumed that the particles are small enough to enter the alveolae and cause mechanical irritation there. Only one case of a person being killed by fluoropolymer (not necessarily PTFE) fumes has ever been reported, and that involved burning materials in a facility not equipped to handle the emissions.

Parakeets are known to be much more sensitive than humans to fume fever, and parakeet lovers are very worried about Teflon products in their homes. DuPont acknowledges that these things are true, but points out that frying with butter also releases similar amounts of toxic gases, and no bird has ever been known to die accidently from either butter or Teflon.

Researchers have also pointed out that the extreme toxicity sometimes observed in tests is only caused by pure fumes of PTFE produced by high temperatures without flaming. Mixing the polymer fumes with any other kind of fumes, such as wood smoke, greatly reduces the observed symptoms. The reasons for this are not clearly understood, but it has been confirmed. It is thought that the effect may be caused by the test apparatus, which recirculates fumes through the furnace, breaking any clumps back into fine particles.

TFE is also considered non-toxic, or at least non-carcinogenic, but causes the same PFF symptoms as PTFE particles. The TFE molecule is always smaller than the PTFE particles, so it is a more threatening nuisance. Symptoms also include choking, eye and nose irritation, mild central nervous system depression, and dry cough. Inhaling large amounts can cause cardiac arrest and death. A limit of 5 PPM in work areas has been recommended. TFE also has an annoying tendency to be absorbed by tobacco. Each cigarette in an open pack, carried for a few hours in an area where the concentration of TFE is within recommended limits, can absorb enough TFE to cause polymer fume fever when it is smoked outside the building later. This is quite remarkable but very real. Tobacco products should not be brought into the building at all. Likewise, PTFE and other fluoropolymer products should be used with great caution where tobacco products are made.

Other gases released by heating PTFE include:
1.Carbonyl fluoride -- Symptoms may include skin irritation, eye corrosion, respiratory irritation, or difficulty in breathing, and these symptoms may be delayed several hours. Immediate medical attention and/or observation may be required.
2.Hydrogen fluoride: A highly corrosive acid that can be absorbed in toxic amounts through the skin. Symptoms may be delayed. Immediate medical attention is required.
3.Perfluoroisobutylene: Symptoms in animals include wheezing, sneezing, and abnormally deep or rapid breathing. High concentrations cause pulmonary edema and death. Little is known about human exposure.
4.Carbon monoxide: High concentrations and/or long exposures cause sleepiness and possible nosebleed, followed by death.

These gases are usually only produced at temperatures well above 400 C and in the presence of water vapor. Very small quantities of these gases have been detected in finished products, apparently caused by the forming process and trapped within the plastic for a time. This illustrates the important of exactly following the manufacturer�s processing instructions. Such residual contamination can accumulate in sealed packages and closed storage areas, so packages should be opened in a ventilated area and storage rooms should be ventilated before entering them.

It is worth emphasizing that all of the dangers associated with PTFE occur almost exclusively in manufacturing or recycling operations. The danger from a piece of Teflon in any normal setting, including fumes and flakes from an aging fry pan, is zero.

Treatment and Pollution Abatement

The recommended treatment for waste PTFE is either recycling or landfill. Discarded PTFE is not a pollutant, and it is only a hazard if it is burned. The most abundant combustion product is TFE gas, which is not toxic but causes a fever when inhaled. The extreme sensitivity of some birds to TFE has been noted. At higher temperatures, PTFE also yields hydrogen fluoride, carbonyl fluoride, and a small amount of perfluoroisobutylene. Any installation that would incinerate PTFE must be prepared to remove these components from the exhaust. Modifying non-stick cookware for use in other ways should only be attempted with great caution, since such items are almost always made of aluminum, and attempts to grind or otherwise machine the combination of aluminum and PTFE can cause a fire or explosion.

Conclusions

PTFE is the safest material ever made by man. The manufacturing process is somewhat hazardous, and burning the waste is definitely hazardous, but otherwise it is totally safe, even for the extreme sensitivities of budgies. The only application found that is unsafe is as an additive in motor oil, and even then it can injure only the motor.
References

1. �Guide To The Safe Handling of Fluoropolymer Resins� 3rd Edition, 1998
Fluoropolymers Division Of The Society Of The Plastics Industry, Inc.

2. �Polytetrafluoroethylene Decomposition Products� http://www.osha-slc.gov:80/ChemSamp_data/CH_263700.html
Occupational Safety And Health Administration, US Department Of Labor

3. �Beaks - Teflon Kills Birds� http://www.iserv.net/~beaks/teflon.htm
Reprinted from The Parrot Post (The Parrot Club Of Manitoba) Feb. 1994

4. �Oil And Teflon: Slick 50 And Other Teflon Additives� http://edge.edge.net/~deschamp/teflon.html
Mike Deschamps

5. �Frequently Asked Questions About DuPont Fluoropolymers� http://www.dupont.com/teflon/faq/index.html
DuPont Corp.

6. �Polytetrafluoroethylene� http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/ptfe.html
University of Southern Mississippi

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

"...it's the safest material ever made by man."

Gotta love it...

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

I use Titanium Elite cookware www.titaniumelite.com . This is some of the most awesome cookware known to man. It is not for everyone as it is quite expensive. However, one could get by with the large skillet for $470 or so and go with stainless for boiling water and what not. This stuff is a German product and consists of castiron and titanium. It is so non stick that I use no additional oil or anything when cooking. Meat comes out tender as can be. You can straight up fry an egg with nothing but the egg. Stuf is heavy as hell to and durable. I've been using mine for years and it looks like new. There is no coating. You can put it in the dishwasher too. Can you tell, I love this stuff. I rank this right up with the VitaMix as best investments for kithen stuff I ever made.:23_30_104::23_30_104::23_30_104:

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Another vote to throw out the Teflon, and get cast iron and stainless.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Teflon is dangerous, and Cast Iron lasts over 100 years if you know how to avoid rust (Proper Seasoning, clean with Salt + Paper towel, not soap) and stainless steel is ideal as well. No more black chunks of pseudo plastic in your food with this mega combo!

P.S. I tend not to buy anything I wouldn't be proud to take camping; hence my love for Stainless Steel and Cast Iron

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

When I bought my first house, I had to kit it out - bought the cheapest set of pans I could. Thin steel, teflon. None of them have any teflon left on the base any more. It all went into me...
Teflon certainly has many great uses, but cooking is not one of them!

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Stainless is an excellent choice. Buy a copper scrub pad to get rid of the stuck stuff.

Well seasoned cast iron has it's honored place in my kitchen, but not everyday.

Absolutely no aluminum. Absolutely no teflon.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

The way to beat that is eat out.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

So what exactly are these made of? I take it the cooking surface is Ti, bonded somehow to a cast iron casting?

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Hasn't killed my bird. He jumps right up next to the pan. Then again...nothing will kill that bird. He's half cock roach.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Pretty much, that's my take on it. My stuff looks like cast iron and sure weighs like it too. Each piece is individually cast by hand in a "proprietary" chilled casting process. They use a German alloy "looks and feels like cast iron to me" and the titanium surface is fused to the alloy cast insert. There is no distinguishable coating. You use metal utensils, whatever you want. Stuff will not warp chip or anything. Everyday use and no sign of wear or tear yet.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

http://www.lodgemfg.com/dec9-special.asp

Do these look like a good deal? It says their products are seasoned with a soy-based vegetable oil that is baked on at high temperatures.

I wonder what shipping is on such heavy items?:36_1_25:

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

my vote goes to stainless steel. but use wooden accessories while cooking with them to avoid scratches. also clean it with a good metal cleaner about once a month to keep that original shine. I also, in my younger days, used the non-stick stuff and probably ingested a bunch of flake off during that period. Just another reason to use a daily liver/blood detox herbal med IMO if you have or still use the non-stick stuff.

Re: Anyone Else Apprehensive About TEFLON?
 

Cast Iron. If it's black, it'll match whatever color changes your kitchen takes on in the future.